Tactics Tuesday

Give your Size up and Fire Ground Operations

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8 Comments

  • Still an explorer says:

    “Engine 3 is on arrival. We have a 1.5 story wood frame single family, heavy fire showing. Strike a 3rd Alarm. Engine 3 is grabbing a hydrant and setting up a master stream, Tower take the front and setup for an elevated master stream. Next in engine grab another hydrant and feed the tower.

    If building is abandoned, master streams all the way. If it is in good shape structurally wise (no holes in floor, walls, etc.) once main body of fire is knocked down stretch a few lines both on the exterior and interior and have the truckies start opening up.

  • curious says:

    Still an explorer I have a few questions about what you said, not criticizing just curious. First off since you cant tell if the second floor is a bonus room, attic, etc. why would you say 1.5 story? I was taught that when unsure just to say a muli story residential structure. Second question, why would the first due engine catch its own hydrant? The arrival order where I volunteer and same for all county units here is 1st due-fire attack, 2nd due-water supply, 3rd due-RIT, 4th due-truck company operation then all other units are placed as needed. As I said not trying to criticize in any way just wanted to get the point of view from somewhere else

  • curious says:

    Pumper 212 is on scene, this is going to be a working fire, we have a multi-story residential structure, heavy fire and smoke showing from the Charlie and Delta sides. Nearest hydrant is unknown, 212 is entering division A par 2.

    First I would send a crew with a 2 1/2 inch line to attempt to knock down the fire in the C/D corner. After that I would send the rescue crew or the truck crew in to start a search since there are vehicles in the driveway and possibly victims unless the people across the street were the occupants. I would not call a 2nd alarm though because I think its overkill, I would call for an extra ladder though to vent the structure and either an extra engine or a brush truck to protect exposers near the woodsline behind the house so that the fire wouldnt stretch to the surrounding homes. I would have several EMS units on scene to set up rehab and transport for any occupants injured. Even though this is in Detroit, I do not see any hydrants which would concern me since drop tank operations would have to be estalished and as small as that road is it would quickly get clogged with personel, tanks, tankers, etc.

  • anchorpoint1 says:

    I can probably answer a couple of your questions Curious. Due to the size and location of the windows on the second floor it’s obviously a 1.5 story. It does not matter if it has anything you listed because if you can stand up in it, it’s a floor. People do crazy things with available space. Are you wrong to say multi-story? No. But that is a bit more vague than 1.5.
    Your department SOP’s dictate what 1st arriving companies do. My department SOP states “First due engine company will connect to a hydrant” “all subsequent engines on the first alarm will take position at separate hydrants and report to command”.
    I won’t critique SOP’s. But in order for your department to have a secure water supply you need at least 2 engines if everything goes right.
    As far as not hitting the second alarm, why not? Do you have engines close enough to get to the scene quickly if this gets out of control? You are already calling for extra apparatus, just bring everybody they all want to come to the party anyway.
    This was longer than I hoped. It’s good that you ask the questions. Thanks for the comments and good luck. Be safe

  • Nate Q. says:

    “Rescue-Engine 94 arriving o/s of a 1.5 story house, heavy fire from C/D corner, we’ve dry wrapped the hydrant on the way in. Establishing ? Command, working fire. Fill out a 2nd alarm for manpower.”

    RE-94: 1 3/4 line to front door, 360 by command, interior attack upon command transfer.

    Q-92: primary search/open up ceilings, DE ladder B window, A roof.

    BAT-90: Assume command on arrival.

    E-13: DE secure water/relay pump, LT/FF second line upstairs, open attic.

    E-7: Exterior line to extinguish roof covering fire (if not through roof)/RIT after complete, secure secondary hydrant if avail.

    RE-93: Vertical vent if extension to attic. Otherwise secondary search/salvage.

    SOP dictates at least laying in dry from hydrant for 1st-in. It only takes an extra 30-seconds and makes things way smoother for 2nd-in. Plus, if you’re gonna pull the 2.5″ off as your first line, how long is your tank gonna last with this fire condition?

    I’ll call 2nd alarm for manpower based on fire conditions and auto-aid engines staffed with 2 (if fully staffed, our first alarm is a total of 13 personnel max.) We can always cancel what we don’t need, once we get our bearings.

    Good posts, keep ‘em coming!

  • Still an explorer says:

    Curious, my dept.’s SOP is that 2nd due acquires water supply, however, if I have fire showing, my opinion is to lay in if possible. My first out engine only has 750 gallons on it, and I would rather have the hydrant kit and LDH already at the hydrant at the least or have our own hydrant hooked up.

    As to why I’d strike a 3rd. A 1st alarm for us is the initial on-duty crew (at minimum, 2 – 2 man engines, 1 – 2 man TL, and 1-1 man ambulance) A 2nd strikes an “All-Call” recalling all off-duty career and paid-on-call personnel. A 3rd for us is the equivalent of a working fire and brings 1 engine to the scene, 1 for coverage, and 1 ambulance for coverage.

    That explain my comment above curious?

  • Still an explorer says:

    *Edit: a 2nd alarm is struck on all reported structure fires.

  • curious says:

    Yeah I understand now

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Marques Bush

Firefighter Basics launched in February 2009 after Founder/Editor Marques Bush was looking for a way to express himself and share his experiences with brother and sister firefighters. Shortly after founding the site Marques spoke with several trusted friends and ask them to come on board and contribute also. Firefighter Basics is a dedicated group of firefighters who strive everyday to practice what they preach about Training, Safety, and Tradition.  We can be reached at firefighterbasics@gmail.com
Comments
Hollie Broughton
Is This the Dumbing Down of the Fire Service?
I was left feeling a little offended here. Trying to have an open mind, but also trying to figure out why you have to knock Pump operators so badly. Full time, I see your point. But I volunteer. And am a Pump operator/ Firefighter. I was graced with only 48 hours of training and 4…
2014-07-08 19:16:19
Jack Crais
Blanket Rules Vs Training
I enjoyed the ideas espoused in the article, but doesn't the acronym "K.I.S.S." mean "Keep it simple, stupid" or, for those who worry about hurting someone's feelings, "Keep it sweet and simple"?
2014-06-27 18:59:01
dennis
Is This the Dumbing Down of the Fire Service?
it was just a matter of time until this became evident in the fire serice. Unfortunately the dumbing down as you call it, could be a direct result of the nation's professional fire service being forced to hire candidates that have lower grades on their employment exams due to racial and ethnic quotas being enforced.
2014-06-25 17:46:09
Johnny
Is This the Dumbing Down of the Fire Service?
When I was a probie, we had pre-determined pressures, and we knew the friction loss for our hoses, but our Captain ran us through hydraulics classes. While we might not use those formulas, I'm still convinced the understanding is indispensable if one wants to be a great chauffeur.
2014-06-24 05:04:43
Ray McCormack
Is This the Dumbing Down of the Fire Service?
This is defenity part of it. When we are too busy to drill that's one thing but when we don't even get a chance to learn the options that is another issue. Complaints of lazy firefighters will only increase when technology can be blamed and used as the scapegoat for not knowing your job.
2014-06-24 01:24:00

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